CanuckPancake In reply to t4444qwew4r43 [2021-09-18 22:49:46 +0000 UTC]

Hell is a realm of Sub-Reality V aka The Void and The Dreaming is one of the Intrinsic Fields, both existing within the Murum Quattro. The dividing of the wings took place in Ghost Castle in The Dreaming where the various demon lords and devil princes obtained parts of the wings. In short, HIM got the wings while being in the Dreaming because Ghost Castle is in the Dreaming and that is where the wings were divided up and distributed among the demons and devils.

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t4444qwew4r43 In reply to CanuckPancake [2021-09-18 23:26:04 +0000 UTC]

But wasn't he imprisoned in a room? Why did they acknowledge him in this.

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CanuckPancake In reply to t4444qwew4r43 [2021-09-18 23:35:04 +0000 UTC]

He was trapped in the Dreaming that doesn't mean he was imprisoned in a room. There are a lot of types of imprisonment. It doesn't have to be in a dungeon cell. The file says he was able to interact with dreaming mortals and able to go to Ghodt Castle.

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t4444qwew4r43 In reply to CanuckPancake [2021-09-19 01:49:11 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for the explanation bro

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NO-SoupForYou In reply to KivaTheDCWizard [2021-09-18 19:28:26 +0000 UTC]

The Marvel Satanus has no connection; Earth-27 seems to have largely avoided connections to Marvel properties.  I think that's to keep things from getting even more complicated.

As I had to be told only recently myself, HIM has been an acronym.  The fact was just never shoved in out faces.

And you are not mistaken at all;  Roy used an opportunity to tie HIM into Infernal families and dealings, simultaneously explaining why he has that giant mismatched claw for a hand.  It's the other hand of the beast which originally bore the Right Hand of Doom; HIM scavenged it from the body when it was killed to acquire the relic.  He grafted it in place of his own hand when someone cut it off much later.

This entry is 'written' under the web handles of Velma Dinkley and Drake Utonium.  Neither are from Oz.

But I'm sure that in E-27 "Oz" is just the Homeland name Mundies felt a psi-echo of when deciding to name the continent it most matched.  In "Fables", something the Fables were shocked to discover was no matter which Homeland they'd come from, on which world, Earth either had a place like it or spoke of one in their fiction.  As the entry states, Oz is the Homeland of 'Australian' Fables.... like, say, Bunyips that become hyper-possessive of their "property" on Earth.

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AzureVirgo In reply to KivaTheDCWizard [2021-09-18 17:53:55 +0000 UTC]

L. Frank Baum was American, born in New York, lived in Chicago and South Dakota, and passed away in California

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astrocitizen In reply to NO-SoupForYou [2021-09-18 16:23:17 +0000 UTC]

Gives it a vague Blitzo-and-Stolas-but-in-reverse vibe. *

"His Infernal Majesty"... an inventive explanation for what IRL was surely just standards-and-practices b.s.

*Whoops!  Meant this in reference to the dynamic (or lack thereof) between HIM and the Professor mentioned in the text, but somehow left that out.

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NO-SoupForYou In reply to astrocitizen [2021-09-18 17:38:13 +0000 UTC]

Nah.  As I pointed out in HIM's art by Phil Cho, the acronym was probably always intended as his name, and an added joke to go over kids' heads.  "His Infernal Majesty" is really clumsy to keep saying in dialogue, and McCracken could have invented any number of goofy but evocative names for the demon instead, like Tormento or something.

When spoken, "HIM" is just some sort of defining emphasis for someone everyone knows and expects to hear about.  When written it looks like a term of dread, the same way everyone talked about Voldemort in the Harry Potter series... which began roughly around the time this show debuted on Cartoon Network.

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NO-SoupForYou In reply to AzureVirgo [2021-09-18 19:56:55 +0000 UTC]

A familiar sequence of two letters doesn't mean anything in and of itself.  Certainly not in a setting like this, where details need to be changed to make things work better.

As you yourself pointed out to another commenter, nothing about L. Frank Baum was connected to Australia.  And neither was the off-beat content of his books.  Dumping them together with Aboriginal mythology just to share the same Homeland name is a narrative crime, and Roy certainly wouldn't do it.

I'm certain if he ever needs to use Wizard of Oz Fables, he'll manage to come up with another appropriate name for their Homeland.  Maybe something reflecting how major culture in Oz had a certain color theme.

EDIT:

I've since realized the 'combined Homeland' idea isn't as far-fetched as I once thought.  The Homeland 'Americana' is known to exist as distinct zones which follow varying themes.  'Oz' could consist of similar zones, with an American their coincidental Mundy chronicler of one.

It would tie into a bit of real-life history, too.  Aboriginal oral history states The Dreamtime was once much more accessible to them.  Perhaps by entering it, they found pathways to view or even visit the Australian Homeland.   Encountering the European-like people in the 'Baum' section of it would explain accounts of how Aborigines reacted when they first encountered Westerners.  Simply put, they often didn't.

They seemed unfazed by the strange ships, technology, and other aspects of the first foreigners they'd probably ever seen.  They often showed little curiosity or interest at all about these peculiar newcomers.  Yet there's journal accounts where native individuals flashed a secret and unique Freemason sign, knew just how to lace and tie boots, or displayed other odd knowledge.

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AzureVirgo In reply to NO-SoupForYou [2021-09-19 00:36:19 +0000 UTC]

True, I did say that Mr. Baum was American, and that we know of there's no connection to Australia in his work.

I never did say "let's dump the characters from Oz with Aboriginal mythology (of which I know nothing about) and see what happens." Playing "What if" and using the Earth-27 motto of exploration and experimentation, not expectation my question/idea was would Glenda the Good Witch, the Tin Man, Cowardly Lion, Scarecrow, etc. have been Australian (if they ever show up) if Oz is Homelands Australia?

Now, if the Fateweaver wants incorporate Dorothy Gale with a similar Aboriginal or Australian story, I'm for it.

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NO-SoupForYou In reply to AzureVirgo [2021-09-19 19:09:26 +0000 UTC]

I've since rethought things, and edited my original post to reflect a new theory.

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CanuckPancake In reply to NO-SoupForYou [2021-09-18 23:20:43 +0000 UTC]

In the Homelands, the Australian continent is Oz. Just as the US is Americana and England is Albion. I don't see any narrative crime happening.

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NO-SoupForYou In reply to CanuckPancake [2021-09-19 09:34:59 +0000 UTC]

You kinda grabbed the wrong end of the stick.  The crime would be putting the 'Wizard of Oz' locales and characters into the Australian Homeland.  They have nothing to do with the cultures, land type, or mythology.  The Baum 'Oz' should be elsewhere, under a different name.

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TheBlakeBuz In reply to NO-SoupForYou [2021-09-18 23:20:41 +0000 UTC]

What’s wrong with Oz being the Homeland Australia?

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NO-SoupForYou In reply to TheBlakeBuz [2021-09-19 10:17:04 +0000 UTC]

Did you not read my comment?  I kind of explained at length.

But to reiterate: nothing, as far as a name goes.  What's wrong is people assuming that the same place must also be where L. Frank Baum's books occurred.

The Oz stories are American tales.  They may not belong in a sub-Homeland of Americana, but they clearly don't occur in places like Australia or those of it's Aboriginal mythology.

Maybe Roy'd perform some narrative gymnastics to accomplish the combined Homelands.  But we shouldn't simply assume a 1:1 name correlation.

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CanuckPancake In reply to NO-SoupForYou [2021-10-22 12:30:03 +0000 UTC]

It's not an assumption. It's established as canon. In this very file.

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NO-SoupForYou In reply to CanuckPancake [2021-10-23 15:57:06 +0000 UTC]

Nothing at all in the file says or implies anything equating the Australian Homeland with the land from Wizard of Oz books, just that they have an identical name to the one that land was known by... in the books.

There's a ton of Springfields in America alone, but no one assumes they're all the same place.  And we shouldn't even assume that the Baum Homeland is called Oz by it's true-life residents.  A recurring theme in the 'Fables' material (both in Earth-27 and comics) is that the human authors whose tales echoed events in the Homelands often got stuff muddled or left things out.  Although in the comics the Baum Homeland was indeed called Oz, there was also no dissimilar land claiming the same name.  What claims have been made those Baum Fables even exist in Earth-27?

I've softened my stance since I wrote the post you responded to, and now realize how the two could be the same location.    But everyone still needs to stop presuming that a place named 'Oz' must be the one with Munchkins, a Cowardly Lion, and an  Emerald City.

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CanuckPancake In reply to NO-SoupForYou [2021-11-05 15:02:04 +0000 UTC]

HIM's powers are weaker outside of Australia, Altjira, and Oz. Australia is the continent and nation in the southwest Pacific/southeast Indian oceans. Altjira is what the Australian Aboriginal people call the "Dreaming". And so why is Oz included with those two? It literally even says "Oz (the Homelands' Australia). I'm sorry, man, but you are wrong.

Also, Gothel is implied to be the Wicked Witch of the West. In her file, it's mentioned that a farm girl from Americana who studied under Hansel helped defeat her and free the kingdom that she had conquered. This is obviously Oz and when I asked Roy about it on Discord, he confirmed that Oz is the Homelands version of Australia and that Gothel became known as the Wicked Witch of the West as she had fled west - first from Europa and then from Americana, eventually ending up in Oz.

Maybe the Homelands' Australia is not entirely Oz. Oz was just one kingdom from those books, but at least part of the Homelands' Australia is Oz.

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NO-SoupForYou In reply to CanuckPancake [2021-11-05 17:04:57 +0000 UTC]

I've said in my last comment that I've realized it could be the same place.  And you now have presented strong evidence.  But no one else seemed to be doing that.  They apparently just pointed to the name, and ended their reasoning there.

With "The Dreamtime" already spoken for as a location name, a suitable name for the Australian Homeland is a little awkward to locate.  I thought it very likely Roy simply co-opted the name of another locale he had no current plans to work with.  And I'm still certain that's the main reason he's now squished the two together.

I now accept I'm wrong on the shared-locale thing.  I'm simply pissed that so many people insisted on a connection the second they saw that name.  Things get new names and reworkings here all the time.  It could have been a fluke, or even a deliberate red herring!

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NO-SoupForYou In reply to merdicano [2021-09-18 20:10:33 +0000 UTC]

Iiiiit's HellFonz!

*snap*  "Eeeeeeey."

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merdicano In reply to NO-SoupForYou [2021-09-19 06:06:09 +0000 UTC]

Eh, what?

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Ninja-Jedi In reply to merdicano [2023-03-01 06:29:51 +0000 UTC]

Don't know the sitcom "Happy Days"?

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NO-SoupForYou In reply to merdicano [2021-09-19 10:39:21 +0000 UTC]

"Your shoe's untied.  

Whooooa!"  *thumps flaming jukebox, which starts playing*

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NO-SoupForYou In reply to MalchiorOfNol [2021-09-18 20:11:18 +0000 UTC]

Hellboy vs HellFonz.

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RustedDrAugon319 In reply to MalchiorOfNol [2021-09-18 15:24:08 +0000 UTC]

HIM: No! How can you handle such weapons?!

Hellboy: A little friend of mine made these for me. Show 'em red.

Alucard: Hey there, padre! How's the manhunt coming along? Wait! Don't tell me that you fap with that lobster claw. Kinky... But with your whole tight leather pants and fur coat fetish, I can't say that I don't understand the appeal! I'd even go so far as to call you Santa Claws! Now, are you going to tell me whether you've been naughty or nice? Because I have a gun for either option! Cue the music HB! *Andrew Week's Get Ready To Die plays in the background*

HIM: No! Damn it! Not this asshole! Every goddamn time I think I'm free of him he comes to break the f%cking 4th wall and make my life a even worse than it was in hell!

Alucard: All right then, audience members. Leave a reply telling us what kind of Mortal Kombat style fatality you want us to use to bring him to his knees!

A. Hellboy and Alucard blast him with a barrage of holy iron bullets.

B. Hellboy impales him with one of his horns.

C. Alucard eats him.

D. All of the above.

Alucard: Thank you for selecting the Choose Your Own Adventure option, brought to you by a bored autistic writer and sociologist with a caffeine addiction and an unhealthy obsession with video essays!

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NO-SoupForYou In reply to RustedDrAugon319 [2021-09-18 20:04:02 +0000 UTC]

The only way I could imagine 'Hellsing' Alucard talking like that is if he was drunk and  stoned out of his mind!

Given how he dresses, it's a funny mental image.  That and that freaky hound form of his trying to run, but weaving around and stumbling every few lopes.

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RustedDrAugon319 In reply to NO-SoupForYou [2021-09-19 14:56:04 +0000 UTC]

I actually wrote him based on his characterization in Hellsing Ultimate Abridged. I can actually imitate his voice in both the TFS version and the official version quite well.

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