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Published: 2021-11-05 00:19:21 +0000 UTC; Views: 31607; Favourites: 120; Downloads: 3
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Ah, I am really happy to still be kicking and breathing. As the saying goes, better late than never, and I've been painstakingly waiting a year for this. To deliver me proper Spidey-related screen drugs my system requires and craves. Just a quick reminder; I've thoroughly enjoyed the first Venom flick. For all its serviceable "go from point A to Point B" plotline and the workable antagonist (I still don't find Drake and Riot bad. They're there for a job and did it honorably...), it had the dark humor inherent to the titular protagonist and was not a superhero movie per say. It was a genuine anti-hero flick about 2 self-centered jerks that ended doing the right thing (stopping an alien invasion) for pretty selfish reasons (one for proving he was right all along and the other for staying on a planet where he'd be the cock of the block). Before we start with the main course, allow me to adress 2 elements:"Grrr, Venom should have been dark, mentally tortured, brooding and totally like Upgrade you guys !"
Fuck that statement in the ass. People wanting a super serious Nolan-y Venom want Venom to be something he's actually not. YES, Venom is a serious threat to Spidey... but you never noticed how he actually behaves and talks in the Michelinie run ?! There has always been genuine and sincere cheese in it. Same thing with the 90's cartoon, Eddie was having the time of his life trolling and stalking Peter. His Lethal Protector days ? Dude has the time of his life gutting criminals, savagely breaking laws and having law forces after him while he had an Adam West Batman self-image. And he was still demented enough to be a threat ! That sweet balance is what makes me LOVE Venom. What happens when you remove said balance ? You get shit like how fucking Quesada, Mackie, Jenkins and Millar mistreated the character and spat on his fans' face. That character mistreatment and abuse right there even made the first movie seem like a foreign concept despite how it actually GOT the character.
By the by, I went and watched Upgrade. I mean, people kept drawing parallels with it and Venom so what the hey, let's see if that comparison is accurate. Not only does it NOT remind of Venom or any of the classic Eddie/symbiote dynamic, it feels like a grim 2000 AD story (think something like Hardware...). It is good...until the ASININE, UNGODLY RETARDED, PANTS-SHITTINGLY STUPID TWIST HAPPENS ! SERIOUFUCKINGSLY ?! THAT WAS THE MASTER PLANNER ALL ALONG ?! Fuck you, movie ! Fuck you for fucking up a good idea so moronically !
" Dat movie will suck cus it's PG-13 you guys !"
It's funny how this statement can be used by people who don't read comics. Or have a very skewed memory of said comics. Yeah, I know the titular antagonist here seems like someone that ONLY works under an R-rating, but publication history might say otherwise. Just keep that little tidbit in mind. My general take, by experience, is that R-rating at this point in our current times means Jack shit. In fact, it can be a favorable asset when it allows the movie to spread its wings and give the full experience as an adaptation or its own thing (the first 2 Blade movies, the Spawn cartoon and Faust are a good example of that). Otherwise, and this case seems to unfortunately happen a lot lately, an R-rating can ENSLAVE a movie and push it into low-hanging fruit territory in order to justify its vaunted edge.
I mean Deadpool ? Yeah, see the gore and revel in dick jokes and "we so meta comics is silly you guys" but never give Wade Wilson the truly mean-spirited, treacherous Bender-like personality that made the Merc With a Mouth a great character before 2008. In fact, the best thing from those movies are Ajax and Cable, and the latter should've been the heroic antagonist...
Hellboy 2019 ? The gore is excessive in places and the vulgar language really hurt it... and I say this as someone who does NOT hate this movie ! It really had potential, but it is clear the R-rating was more of an excuse to make it crass. Which is baffling as the comics go more for the gloom than the gore.
Logan ? Honestly, much as I like Hugh Jackman as an actor, Movie Wolverine is an insufferable twat. The initial trilogy, if it ain't about Mags and Xavier, it's all about him being the jackass we're supposed to root for. And in the dumpster fire that is Origins, while he is almost palatable, when Gambit tries to help him despite the amnesia and tells him "The children are safe",dude does not even try to follow up on that as he is a colossal dumbfuck. And HE IS THE ONE TO SURVIVE ? Oh, he popped his claw ! Berserkah rage ! Fuck that. You know, let's be crazy. If you asked to do Logan as an R-rated movie, I'd probably have him dead and only appear in the reminescences of an adult Jubilee who'd be the one protecting kid X-23 and being on the run from the Reavers and Albert the android. I'd even wager that this similar plot with Jubes would actually work better. Why ? Cus if the protagonist has to bite it, might as well be someone I give a fuck about, not the ones (include Prof X in that statement) I wanted offed and tossed in the garbage 4 flicks ago !
Gunn's Suicide Squad ? Already discussed it and it gets worse anytime I think about it... fuck this movie. I can't think about it again without cringing. We could've had Starro fighting L.E.G.I.O.N as the malevolent badass he is but I suppose being tippy-toing rat chow is the best we can get.
With that out of the way and as a certain red psycho would say "Let's get this party STARTED !"
********************************************************************************************* SPOILERS ********************************************************************************************************
PROS :
+ Tom Hardy's Eddie Brock is mostly lifted from the 90's cartoon this time around and it is glorious ! Dude's still not a hero (nor is he even intended to be), is still self-centered and rather full of himself despite coasting on the successful investigation of his alien roommate. Yes, there is the dispute (I still want a gif from that particular middle finger) and all the hilarity that ensues from it and the reconciliation and the genuinely heartwarming epilogue that results from it. And with the sense of duty and responsibility intrinsic to his character (classic and movie), the dude decides to chill while the Symbiote is living its life outside... that is until he realizes that a certain serial killer has painted a bullseye on his head. Again, they consistently make his primary motive rather selfish.
By the end of the movie, Eddie evolves from his 90's cartoon self to his 90's solo comics iteration as he duly decides to be the Don Quijote to the symbiote's Sancho Pansa and I wouldn't have it otherwise !
+ The Venom symbiote kinda does its own thing as it did in the previous flick. As previously stated, it kind of already has the main Venom personality and it is pretty much the same here. Well, it has certainly grown more restless, more capricious and more eccentric over time ("I can't ! Sonny and Cher are best friends..."), it is hellbent on having its Lethal Protector respected and upheld in the streets dammit ! In all honesty, though ? THIS is the characterization the symbiote should have had in the comics back in the 00's if they really wanted a different spin on it. Not the edgelord/gaslighting/crawling in my skin/DA CANCER horseshit pushed by Mackie, Quesada, Millar, Jenkins and Cates. People say the Venom movies disrespect and ruin the character ? They can eat shit. Because they must have the memory capacity of a cooked shrimp. I, on the other hand, remember how the 00's editorial direction really fucked up the character. Because, for all the good runs Marvel had at the beginning of that decade, others firmly planted the seeds of what would give us the utter final cancer stage that is Civil War; where it seems they got ashamed to be fun and get more "realistic", uselessly cynical and insecure about their world... Venom and Eddie REALLY got the short end of the stick there, with authors doing whatever the fuck they could scramble, and then they unceremoniously separate them, have Eddie slit his wrists and we got Gargan as Jobbernom and the shitstain that is Dark Origins. Anti-Venom was a decent saving throw but it was mostly Lethal Protector with White Mage powers and, again, the basis for it was all wrong.
SO NO, I think Movie Venom's personna is not only cool but something I'd rather have seen in comics about 20 year ago.Better that than never I suppose. And I really like how the symbiote is portrayed: it is colorful, vibrant, dynamic, still very hazardous and most importantly ENTERTAINING ! While I do find the Venom Symbiote's speech at the rave party pretty cute, the funniest part is that it still left a trail of comatose, emptied of nutrients hosts to simply get there. Illustrating that it is still kind of a jerk despite some altruistic streaks and the capacity for empathy... Also, Perfect Lethal Protector theme here www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl0yXk… . Now if Marvel could pull their thumbs from their butts and give a proper Spidey fighting game, that theme would fit greatly...
+ Why is Annie better handled here than in the comics, I'll never know. In fact, these 2 movies used her far better than how even the Raimi movies did MJ...even the good ones fell short in that regard...
+ Dr Dan is actually damn badass this time around ! I found him to be a nice surprise in the first film but here, dude even gets a shining moment proper !
+ Pat Mulligan is a nice surprise. In fact, I prefer this version to his comics counterpart. Comics Mulligan who was really made during a nap and even the name was hardly the byproduct of well-crafted imagination (right, Peter Milligan ?), felt kinda blah. Hell he got 2 mini-series which, while well-drawn, piss all over Eddie's characterization (yeah, Venom teams-up with Carnage just to take down Toxin? Sure, just pull the other one...) and ends up leading to fuck-all. Comics Mulligan was a footnote in the same way Hybrid was. Who ? EXACTLY !
Stephen Graham's hard-boiled detective though felt more distinctive. His past accident against Frances, his dislike and distrust of Brock (for good fucking reason BTW !)... you know ? I WISH we got more scenes with him and his team of cops. Both in terms of investigation and action.
+ Do you have any idea how long it's been for me to genuinely love a villain leitmotiv in a Comics-based movie ? This Villain theme www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSraxk… is up there with "Waltz To the Death" from Batman 89. Again, great work !
+ Frances "Shriek" Barrison ... HOHOHO, We got another Spidey villain, and a lady to boot ? Why that makes me jubilant ! I really liked her along with her relation to Cletus. Naomie Harris did a great job portraying Shriek as a tragic monster, both with her mental unbalances and absolute cruelty. She's pretty close to Frances' portrayal in the fairly overlooked "Shrieking" arc. I felt bad for her at times and I liked her power. Naomie Harris played her well. I was at first surprised to learn that she'd be included, but now I see her as a VITAL component of the plot, namely , without her Venom would be utterly fucked ! There were only 2 factors that granted Eddie victory and one of them was Frances' super sonic scream (we'll get to the other later).
Granted, they did not give Shriek all of her abilities (otherwise, you'd be back to square one to give Venom a plausible victory), but one could argue the movie did not have the time to properly explore all of them as she mostly lived in incarcerated isolation. In the comics, her sonic powers may lack the raw might of the movie supersonic scream but they are more precise and easier to direct. She's also capable of levitating (see what I mean? If Movie Frances could fly all she'd need to do is more or less snipe Venom and Eddie while Carnage goes farther and BAM, VICTORY !) and possesses the dark empathy trick (During Maximum Carnage, she used this power to make people go ballistic, going for acts of attempted murder, infanticide, vandalism, and general mayhem. Would've been great to see it in the movie... but I suppose they thought it would overcomplicate things so they left it out...).
Now I know you'll ask me; how come I criticized Movie Domino but I am absolutely fine with Movie Shriek despite her lack of make-up ? Simple. While I like Zazie Beetz as an actress, she was not even playing Domino but discount Foxxy Cleopatra. Naomie Harris, while I WOULD have given a more sickly appearance like she had as Tia Dalma and with more visible blood vessels, gave me a Shriek I could totally recognize. Is it me or did she perfect the role of twisted monster's bride with access to her beau's weakness ? Wonder who's next after Davy Jones and Carnage... SPEAKING OF WHICH !
+ The Man of the hour and in Red; Cletus Kasady ! I can say without doubt that Woody Harrelson can totally take his seat along with Dafoe's Norman Osborn and Alfred Molina's Doc Ock performances among my favorite live protrayals of Spidey villains ! Is it how I would have adapted Carnage ? No. Is it a fine portrayal of our fine red-blooded wackjob ? YES, and it is glorious.
The changes they've made are in service to the story and medium (it's a movie after all and all the other villains I've cited went through that adaptational treatment) and I am mostly fine with them. To explain my point, we need to talk comics oncen again...
See, Comics Carnage at his best is the anti-thesis to Adult SPIDER-MAN. He is not supposed to be used often as he is a BOSS type villain (the BOSS villain of Michelinie's run in fact...) and ideally is the polar opposite of Spider-Man. One wants preservation of life, is mature and has loving family, the other relishes termination of life, is immature and desires family. Cletus is also playful to a fault and excessively arrogant, which usually leads to his arrest and failure in his initial run. The best way to describe him would be if Child Play's Chucky was mixed with the xenomorph.
The Carnage symbiote itself, in its classic iteration, is a mere extension of Cletus as it gestated in his blood and simply copied his personality and murderous tendencies (hence why wearing the Carnage symbiote is equivalent to having Kasady is one's head).
As a Venom antagonist though ? It's fun to have them battle but it really happened twice and in rather cartoony fashions. And even then, there is a certain power imbalance.
Granted, Carnage also suffered with the 00's Marvel regime (OK, seriously ? Cletus Kasady, Jean Grey, Wanda Maximoff ... Did Marvel have it in for redheads or the color red in general ?!). Instead of putting a moratorium on Cletus and keep him away so that his return would mean a big fucking deal, that shithead Bendis unceremoniously had the fucking Sentry tear him in half in the Earth's atmosphere (because destroying the Avengers was not enough I guess...). Thankfully, his 2012 return gave us a Carnage doing his own thing on his own corner of the Marvel Universe and a string of fun mini-series, though I stop at Conway/Perkins' maxi-series, it's the perfect end point.
Now, if they used Comics Carnage as he is, it would be like a Wile E Coyote cartoon but with the Road Runner replaced with the Indoraptor ! Venom would go after him, only to get his ass kicked till Carnage decides to off him... which does not really occur since Cletus hardly takes Eddie or Peter seriously.
Onto Movie Cletus now. The man oozes with horror even before he acquires the symbiote's spawn. Woody Harrelson's take has his Kasady mask his savagery with an eerie politeness. I love the mini-cartoon where he reveals his childhood to Eddie through a post-card as well the main difference for this version of Cletus; he has known Frances way back when they were both kids and has fell in love with her ever since. Thankfully, the movie makes no bones about the fact that he's an unrepentant serial killer that disposes of people as if they were flies to swat, so even having a person to love does not diminish his monstrosity one bit. Things are made more personal with Eddie to keep matters focused and have him target Brock for revenge. He also keeps his temper in check a lot better than his comics version, especially when it comes to meeting his end. Though do not think he is harmless without his symbiote as he overpowered Eddie when both aliens were knocked out.
The Carnage Symbiote now, and THIS is what surprised me the most, has its own persona. Carnage is surprisingly TALLER than Venom (Like Don Quixote Doflamingo TALL!), comes off as more stern and lets his blades do the talking (he's a playful chatterbox in the comics) as he set out to be the only cock in the block after offing daddy dearest, and sounds like Diablo of all things !!! For the most part, it is absolutely in-synch with Cletus and they are of one sadistic bloodthirsty mind... except where Shriek's powers are concerned. Once Carnage feels it's 100% done with her, Cletus protests and said dispute prevents it from finishing Frances off. The Carnage Symbiote seems to function like the comics Mask now that I think about it. This does not bother as they try to make him more fitting as a Venom anatgonist.
And this is where we get to the 2nd factor leading to his defeat...COMPLETE ARROGANCE ! This is a trait he totally shares with his comics self; Carnage/Cletus is too drunk on his power and full of himself !
Instead of finishing Eddie and Venom after beating them soundly (did I mention they maintained his SNK-boss syndrome from the comics ? Cus they sure as hell did ! Fucker no-sold Venom's best attacks and still went at it. Even had time for an energy snack !), Carnage decides to twirl his mustache and kill Anne to have Eddie suffer and show Venom how powerless he is. Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory ! A proud tradition of old school villains XD
As for the R-rating, sorry to disappoint you but comics Carnage is no more graphic than a Jurassic Park movie. The gore with him is a really recent trend. You may now tell people to stop cursing at Movie Carnage for the rating. Like it or not it is comic accurate to Michelinie's run and it is the type of violence I wish we'd have if my Spidey ever gets another shot at animation.
+ To think Movie Venom got to do what Comics Venom dreamt of doing since 1994...
CONS :
- Unfortunately, we will not see Venom skateboarding or disguise himself as a nun. That is totally bogus my dude...
- A shame they couldn't do more with the criminals freed by Carnage...
- Timeframe is indeed too short. This movie deserved 20 more minutes, some with Detective Mulligan and most of it with Carnage/Cletus and Shriek GTA-ing through the city ! Let those crazy kids have their fun ! Have Cletus go after twinkies ! Huh... now I can imagine a better version of Zombieland !
- That Post-credit scene can go fuck itself. No, I am not looking forward this confrontation. Give me a Spider-man deserving of those villains and then we'll talk ! Bitch barely survived against the Vulture who was not even interested in fighting him and got pretty much punked by Mysterio. So unless Venom crushes him with an anvil Tex Avery style, I could not care less...
All in all ? I had a blast with this movie ! I thank the actors and Andy Serkis for delivering this movie. It should've been a shorter review, but it ended being a declaration of love.
It is cheesy, SINCERE, not at all ashamed of the comics it took elements from (unlike Shang Chi ... we will talk about THAT !) and did fairly well despite the lore restriction it had to contend with. The Venom duet took the Spidey cojones that the MCU threw away and used them to good effect. Another fine addition to my collection... now to wait for Morbius I will take a look at an alternate version www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIr8kC…
Oh and again, if we ever get married Spidey again, this theme goes perfectly with the DeMatteis/Michelinie era www.youtube.com/watch?v=825_ks…
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Comments: 38
God you really have a piety hate boner for the MCU and their version of Spider-Man.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Yes I do. I despise being disappointed.
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The sad thing is that MCU Spider-Man is still leagues above the Zeb Wells run. Seriously, that run erased what good there was in Spider-Man after One More Day and left us with nothing but wasted artwork that outright damaged John Romita Jr.'s reputation as an artist.
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Yeah, I've taken a look here and there, it really wasn't glorious...
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Understatement of the century, my friend. As someone who likes the 2010s Spider-Man, I now know the pain that the Spider-Man fanbase went through when One More Day was greenlit.
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That was a very fun movie!
By the way, I remember way back when in the late 2000s'/early 2010s' people wanted Jim Carrey to play Cletus Kasady in Spider-Man 4. While I don't know how Raimi would've handled Carnage, do you think Carrey could pull it off?
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Yeah, it is pretty respectful of the 90's Venom comics and it had to contend without a Spidey around... plus Carnage is no more changed than the other big villains in the Raimi movies.
Carrey would've done a good job. Though, I would have picked a young Danny Elfman or Jackie Earle Haley !
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Guess what I watched today. And only 3 months after I was originally suppose to, previous movie took a year. Progress!
So, here's my thoughts in a hopefully cohesive order:
-At first the film's pacing confused me. Like we go from the Shriek backstory intro into Eddie visiting Cletus, figuring out where the bodies are, and meeting Anne really fast. Then I remembered this is directed by Andy Serkis and co-written by Tom Hardy, two actors known for their intense performances. So was it really a wonder they sprinted through the first act?
-Eddie Brock is a walking disaster and I love him for it. The man sees a room full of clues yet needs an alien to point the obvious out to him. How was he ever a serious journalist? Also I'd like to that if the cops know he was at the Life Foundation when its genius boss and bunch of other people died how was he ever able to talk his way out of that? No clue, but I enjoy what a hot mess he is. And despite all his failings he still thinks he is the one who is right. If that is not completely true to the character I don't know what is.
-The first film was coy about it but this film really is a rom-com. The couple's first big bad fight and how they get over it to face adversities. The film ends with them contemplating future while watching a sunset! And I am totally fine with it. Also their fight as they broke up was glorious.
-Anne and Dr. Dan were great. Anne really has been more pro-active in both of these movies than MJ was in the entirity of Raimi's trilogy (poor wasted Kirsten Dunst). And you were right about Dr. Dan getting his own badass moment. I did not see that coming.
-Stephen Graham was okay. I know nothing of Toxin so I'm just taking your word that this is better than in comics. If there is a third movies (and that is really big IF) what do you suppose they'd do with him?
-Marco Beltrami's music. The man delivers.
-Venom at the rave. I have heard people bemoaning and whining and gnashing their teeth because of this scene. I just think that it is the 2020s equivelant to the 1990s skate boarding. No problem with it.
-The Ravencroft institute. Glad to see it again after that mess of an ASM2 movie (they really did Dr. Kafka dirty in that one). I like the combination of creepy asylum and high-tech scific prison.
-The other love story. Making Shriek and Cletus the Bonnie & Clyde type of "psychopaths in love" actually made me care about their relationship. I wouldn't have minded to see more of them interact, being a Gomez and Moriticia Adams level of in love and devoted to each others, while wrecking the city apart. Too bad we didn't get to see Shriek in a tight leather outfit with spikes, you know Naomie would have rocked it!
-Woody freaking Harrelson as Carnage. The wait was worth it. I loved both the creepy getting under your skin Cletus and the absolutely unstoppable killing machine Carnage. The prison riot was a blast. I'd have personally prefered Carnage to have a screechier voice, if that terms makes any sense, to really set him apart from Venom's base voice but that's a nitpick. While having Harrelson play someone who was suppose to be a teen in the 90s is a bit weird he was just too much fun to watch to really care. I agree putting him up there with Dafoe and Molina as great Spidey villains in movies (I'd add Keaton's Vulture and Duncan's Kingpin for good measure).
-The end credit scene. Honestly, it feels like a setup for a joke and the punchline was in "No Way Home" (which I haven't seen but have read the spoilers bc aside of Dafoe and Moline I don't care). The joke was on everyone who salivated for this Venom fighting MCU's bug boy. I am so glad we dodged that bullet.
So yeah, overall had a lot of fun. I'm not asking much, just for my comic book movies to entertain and not feel like they have to improve the source material.
👍: 1 ⏩: 0
"That Post-credit scene can go fuck itself. No, I am not looking forward this confrontation."
That's honestly the worst part of Venom getting teleported into the MCU; absolutely nothing was done with it other than leaving a piece of symbiote behind. I mean, I'm glad Venom wasn't derailed in No Way Home for the sake of having him fight the three Spideys, but why even send him to the MCU if you're not going to do anything with him?
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Sony sent him in the MCU to ride its coattails and the highers ups of the MCU were like "oh that's cute...no." The same thing happened with Morbius.
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like father! like son! no! like carnage father! like carnage son!
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It's as if they are of the same blood ! XD
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This movie got lukewarm reception , but it definitely was an improvement over the first one in my eyes and at a mercifully short runtime at that. Hardy is still great at talking to himself and Carnage was perfectly cast, loved how they inverted the whole "tragic backstory" filth that has been infecting media for some time. It definitely was smaller in scale and benefited as it made it more personal, plus the humor in this is better than anything Marvel put out. Definitely better than other big budget productions like Shang-Chi and more entertaining than Dune. Iron-Boy doesn't stand a chance if he comes to blows with this Lethal Protector.
👍: 1 ⏩: 1
The Lukewarm reception is bullshit. I for one believe it deserves as much praise as say Raimi's "Spider-man 2". Net critics take a hike to hell, this flick and its predecessor actually love the source material... unlike shit they defend like Iron Man 3 or The Suicide Squad which are either insincere or spit in the eye of said comics.
I hear all this posturing about how Venom being some edgelord Hard-R psycho-tortured material... when it sure as fuck was not in Michelinie's run (where Eddie first appears) because Venom as a Spidey villain is akin to a deadly Sylvester the cat ! Here's even his first story https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/The-Amazing-Spider-Man-1963/Issue-300?id=4535
(for the record, you have no idea how I miss THIS Spider-man...)
As for PG-13, Carnage while violent in the comics is NOT particularily gorey or graphic during the 90's (the most graphic one occurs in his mind only ! And the 90's cartoon did him justice even without the murders... they just had him steal souls). The gore came rather recently with Cletus' return in 2012.
Yeah, there are differences and Movie Carnage is more no nonsense than the Comics one who's a lot more playful but at NO POINT is he treated as a joke. Cletus is a threat through and through and as you've noted, the tragic backstory does in no way diminish him as a monster... it even adds to him !
People bitch about Frances but WITHOUT her, there was no fucking way hell Eddie would have a chance to win. Hell, Carnage was spending the whole fight in SNK-boss mode with Venom giving it his best while Carnage stands back everytime to skewer him !
About the runtime, I would have added 10 or 15 more minutes with Shriek and Carnage casually strolling while GTA-ing the place , ya know, something like this https://2.bp.blogspot.com/m2CuEPMSzqUmkGmDKkrMl_HUT-eju9cF3oHX4v1s_I0BLpB0SJ5KHkXlzBPCzfdUQfKZ0FgtDCv9iKPx7NXQV6mfDBbcrWO0FM6B-m2Mz7dQQE79tPye5Ya-bc69kPJdcEZiwePY7Q=s1600
But it's just me wanting more Woody Harrelson and Naomie Harris on-screen...
It's also a damn shame we could not get Green Jelly's Carnage Rules song at some point... It would definitely have fit XD
I'd rather have Carnage munch on Iron-Boy ! Seriously, that little bitch could hardly defeat Vulture and Mysterio, I coud not see him even taking on non-powered Cletus Kasady let alone Carnage. So yeah, I am all for Venom crushing him into paste (if the movie does that ? 5/5 immediately XD !
I will get to Shang-Chi and the problems I've personally had with it... Was Dune that dry a flick ? I mean the book certainly was and I've honestly loved Lynch's movie so much more...
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
The whole R-rated superhero movie trend needs to die off. It can work in the right context, but most of the time it just ends up try hard and cringy as hell. The X-men movies honestly had the best example of how to do some pretty gnarly but not over the top violence , though from what I've been hearing not so much in the actual story adaptation department.
The new Iron-Boy is gonna milk all the nostalgia it can from better movies , but watching Hardynom munch on him would be a much welcome glass of ultra-milk.
My man, Dune isn't dry , it's Sirocco with PMS screaming right in your face. It's not a bad movie , in fact it is leagues above other big budget trash that came out this year , but goodness is it overrated. Turning a place marked by the contrast between endless skies and equally endless dunes grey is a Christopher Nolan level titanic achievement. But that is what makes it a good adaptation , it perfectly encapsulates the feeling that I had as I was reading Dune ,that of a book almost ashamed of the interesting universe it created and trying to balance that out by presenting it in the most uninteresting way it can. It means a lot that a dude who made his career by making depressive , cerebral dramas had to ham it up for crying out loud. And that is also the reason I prefer his version a lot more.
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This is a pretty good review of Venom: Let There Be Carnage. Indeed, it is, and I find myself generally agreeing with your points. I was gonna check out Upgrade at some point, but given the B.S. twist you mentioned . . . I might be better off not seeing it. All in all, if there's gonna be a third Venom movie, I'll be there for that one, though I'm thinking a good antagonist for that would be the Jury, in light of all the mayhem Venom (and other symbiotes on Earth) have caused thus far.
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Check Upgrade if you want man, but me, I really got burned after watching it ! Yelling at it even XD
I do wonder if they will make a third movie since, well, they already used the big Red himself. A hunt style movie could work but I'd close it in a bittersweet way, sort of how Web Of Shadows ended for Venom (seriously , if Eddie has to die, THAT is how it's done !)
Anyhow dude, I hope you're doing fine in these uncertain times !
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Hmm, yeah, Web of Shadows was a great game, not just for the combat mechanics and how it depicted Spider-Man's powers, but also how things went with Venom in the more heroic ending. That could be pretty good for inspiration, and I'm maintaining, more or less. Thanks for asking. Hope you're doing well, too.
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Surprised that you hate the post credits scene, but at the same time, I’m not.
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I know, I am quite predictable...
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It's even worse because they ended up doing NOTHING with Venom in No Way Home. He didn't even cross paths with a single Spider-Man.
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Dang it, I was suppose to go see this movie today but something came up. I really want to see something entertaining in cinema, both "Dune" and "No Time to Die" left me cold. Oh well, hopefully I'll get to it faster than I did with the first Venom movie, only took a year before I saw it. And I really enjoyed "Venom" too, despite what everyone else kept saying, far more than anything MCU had shat out in years. Speaking of, I haven't read in Shang-chi comics so I don't know how badly they dropped the ball this time, but absolutely nothing I've heard of the movie makes me want to watch it.
And since you brought up "Logan", yeah also didn't really get why everyone loved that movie so much. I mean, I get it is a goodbye to a beloved character but shouldn't they have actually made him beloved at some point? Personally I think the film should have been a "Fugitive" type of movie following both the hunted AND the hunters. Hunted being ailing Logan dying of adamantium poisoning, Jubilee and X-23, hunters being Weapon X (the guys in the movie were already watered down Colcord and Jackson) and bunch of obscure mutants (no Wolverine clones). Though it would be cool to see Sabretooth as a final boss, maybe have Jubilee take him out like in that one "What if...?" comic.
Anyway, back to topic at hand, I'm looking forward to see this movie. The soundtrack sounds great, thanks Marco, and as someone who got into Spidey comics during the Maximum Carnage era, I want to see both Carnage and Shriek on the screen. I'm not super hot on Carnage's teeth and tongue but I can roll with it if the rest works. So how would you have have adapted the character?
Also this picture is cute as hell. Comic Carnage looks rather adorable here, swinging next to the bigger movie counterpart. What life lessons is he imparting there?
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Tell me what you think of it after watching it. Of course I hope I did not spoil the experience for you XD
Really ? So Lynch's Dune was better then ? I guess that's what happen when one adapts the drought of the novel XD
I only know the MAX mini-series of Shang-chi and since it is done by the same team that wrote for his 70's ongoing (Moench and Gulacy), I kinda get the gist of it. The main problem is with the villain BUT we will get to that after I draw it properly...
Exactly. Hell, just to rub it in I'd have Logan die around the first act's end. He can do his bullshit berserker rage or whatever it is people seem to have a hard-on for. On my part, I find the idea of a young adult Jubilee having to protect Laura from Weapon X agents (and herself since the kid is a weapon...) much more compelling since she'd have to rely on her smarts and Rambo it up to survive. I'd go for Omega Red as main antagonist weapon seeing how the movies BOTCHED Sabretooth (Liev Shriber is fine until they went the protective brother route like WTF ?!). Granted the ending's tone would be bittersweet to say the least.
How would I have adapted Carnage ? Pretty much how he is in the old comics sizewise, though with some added mouths popping up here and there like Kyle Hotz draws him XD And more of a chatterbox I suppose...
Thank you ! Though considering how cocky both versions of Carnage are, I don't think either of them can really flex on the other in that department XD
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As for "Dune", which is the reason I started replying but forgot to talk about 
Now, Lynch's film is not perfect by any means and one of the problem it has is its rushed story telling. When I heard the new Dune was only adapting half of the book for two and a half hour movie I thought they'd dedicate that time to explain the characters and setting better. But honestly, had I not known the story beforehand I'd have been so lost. It doesn't really explain the politics all that well and many of the characters are just there.
SPOILERS BELOW:
F.ex. Dr. Yueh's betrayal is no way foreshadowed. No Baron talking about a traitor, no Yueh showing hatred for Harkonnes, no fremen warning Paul about traitor. So when it does happen it really feels like coming out of nowhere. Piter is another character who is just there doing nothing. Now he didn't have all that much to do in the 84 movie either but Lynch at least let Brad Dourif chew some scenery. The only exception to this is Duncan who has plenty of screentime in the movie but could have been cut out of the Lynch's film.
Also the film has perfectly good moment to stop but continues for additional 15-20 minutes, and I felt that.
It's not terrible but in the end Lynch's film left more of an impact.
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And Feyd's absence for some reason... How come we see Raban, I really don't remember any scene with him per say in the book whenever the Baron discussed with Feyd and Piter...
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Nah, I doubt if anything is going to ruin my experience it won't be your review.
The only thing about Shang-chi I was mildly interested about was the villain. They have a good actor playing him but I had a sneaking suspicion that it was going to be too little too late. The time when they should have properly used him was in "Iron Man 3" after all. Besides MCU doesn't really have the best record when it comes to their villains, Vulture and Red Skull probably being their best ones.
While everyone sings praises to "Logan" I'm going to have to be honest and say out of the three Wolverine movies it is the middle one, "The Wolverine", that I found most enjoyable. Not great but enjoyable. I don't really care about Silver Samurai so any changes done to him don't bother me, and the Logan-Yukio team up is probably the closest we get to a Logan-Jubilee dynamics.
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I had a feeling you'd hate the post-credits stinger of this movie. Something tells me No Way Home MAY drop the ball on Venom's character to justify him being a villain there.
Also, I nervously await your critique of Shang-Chi.
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At this point you've learnt my pattern, like some mid-level Boss XD
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Mid-level? You're more of a standard Boss than a Mini-Boss.
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Like there were non-redheads whose life Marvel didn't destroy. Wolverine, Jubilee, Toxin, Runaways, me... whatever.
How did you like my favourite incarnation of Venom, the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon one?
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Come on dude, if I included all other hair colors that got fucking thrashed under Quesada , we'd be here all day (plus I did adress how it got bad for Eddie !). After Civil War, everyone was in deep shit save for Marvel Cosmic... till War Of The Kings but hey, DnA seemed to have ran out of steam plot-wise.
I only have 2 problems with THAT Venom:
1) He proposes to work for Tombstone.... which is BS cus Eddie is in general a self-righteous jerk and does NOT associate himself with criminals (despite being one...)
2) Endangering Gwen's life. That's just not his M.O. since Eddie considered her a friend and Venom wants to fight Spidey mano a mano. Here, there's too much risk for Gwen to be hurt.
Unfortunately that show got cancelled. A shame we did not get Hobgoblin, Scorpion, Carnage, Morbius and all...
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It is funny how you as a Miller hater loves these films when the symbiote in these films always makes me think of how it was portrayed by Millar
Sorry, I just love the symbiote qouting Aladdin of all things. Also was I mistaken but did you just complement Kristen Dunst Mary Jane even if kinda backhandedly? Because if that is the case then that is more of a contrary opinion from you then you liking the Sony Venom films that I agree with(no, seriously she and Toby Maguire are the sole reason for many people hating the Raimi films).
As for the flick I preferred the last one but it was still amazing how this film made me feel more sorry for a serial killer then the way-to-often-given-a-chance Magneto. No, seriously it is not like Cletus Cassidy's father in this ever got put on trail like the nazis were and yet the big magnet is supposed to be more justified in hating humanity.
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Except that the movie symbiote is GENUINELY LIKABLE and his talkative aspect was established early on, while Millar just had it talk out of the blue and can't write a likable character to save his miserable edgelord life. Yeah, Eddie Brock auctioning the symbiote ? BULLSHIT. If it were classic Venom, said auction would turn out like the one in Hunter x Hunter, where the Genei Ryodan opened the event ! Then Eddie would donate the (blood stained) cash to charity...
Actually I did not praise the Raimi trilogy's take on MJ. I asked why they did not pull it off like the Venom flicks did with Ann.
BTW, I liked MJ okay in the first movie but by the second they botched it and simply should've adapted the DeFalco issue about her origin. Hell, why not just make her supportive of Peter and have their feelings grow and develop properly ? Why not just leave the wedding or rather lovers for the third. But if you're curious, I think Maguire did a good job and actually had some funny lines (like when he shuts JJJ's mouth with web fluid and tells him "Kiddo, mom and dad are talking here !". That was priceless and no one points it out !). Granted I despise the 3rd flick but that whole damn miserable movie was in need of prozac... and since when was Sandman such a sad sack ?! Flint Marko is a chill chad in the comics and Spec Spider-man !
I'd say I veer more towards this one, but hey, 2 movies to enjoy ? I ain't gonna complain my man ! As for feeling sorry for Kasady, well, the movie nailed that aspect. He's a monster but the fact that he admits it fully works totally in his favor...unlike , indeed, Mags who's a murderous piece of shit...
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Huh, sure took you awhile to respond anyway I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree on Millar since I take him over Micheal Strancznsky any day and by the way I just finished the Totem storyline, that you recommended back when I did my 00's tribute and to be honest I have mixed feeling on it as a whole.
Okay, I admitedly like the first Morlun story because if you ask me Morlun is a great villain in the same way that Carnage early Venom and Scorpion were great villains. Basically way out of Spider-Mans lague villains who he none the less pusched himself to take down! I guess you could also put Doomsday in Superman and the Juggernaut in X-Men in that category although in the case of Doomsday his story was allot less entertaining then that of Morlun.
Actually Morluns first appearence reads allot like an episode of Spider-Man the animated series. Much like in that show there are allot of inner dialouge courtesy of our old webslinger(then again Strancznsky gives Spider-Man allot of inner monolouges as well as outword speeches) and Morlun is at the level of Venom, Scorpion and Hydroman in that show. Basically an unstoppable force that can only been taken down by wits not brawn. Also Eziekel in his first appearence reminded me of Madame Web from the animated series. Being a older Spider-themed mentor whos advice Spider-Man refuses and then has to suffer heavy consequenses as a result.
Morlun is also a villain you want to see die because of how dispicable he is and the first Spider-Man villain that I would give that description. Insulting a German Superheroe for his ethnicity and mistreating his assistant(although I would have preferred if we actually saw any of that abuse but I guess Strancznsky wanted to make his actuall killer a totall surprise), not to mention threating innocent bistanders when he could very well take down Spidey without stuping to such a low given that he is such a powerhouse and he knows it. So, yeah it was really great seeing him deplod at the very end and it was no less satifiying seeing it in the Other storyline for that matter.
Later stories by Strancznsky I did not care for that much however there is way to little action in some of them and in others the opposite problem is present, that being that Spider-Man is honestly to much of a killer. I mean him killing the Wasp seems strange. I mean yes she knew who he was and saured the relationship between him and Mary Jane Watson but if that is enough to get the death penalty then Spider-Man would have killed Venom after their first encounter and lets just say that Norman Osborne and Doc Ock would not have been alive either given what happened to Spider-Mans and Betty Brants relationship when Dock Ock killed her brother and how the Green Goblin permenantly ended Gwen Stacies and Peter Parkers relationship.
As for the mob who got turned into a giant green monster I find Peter Parkers reasons for killing them questionable at best. I mean he says it is okay because they should never have come back to life but the only reason they were dead was because they got aced by the mob. I mean then Spider-Man is inadvertenly saying that the mob killing was a good thing, despite him getting that mob boss arrested for it.
I am fine with him killing the Shade tho since I can't fault Spider-Man from not knowning that punching him into that giant orange dome would kill him.
They only other time when I am fine with Spider-Man killing his oppenents is when he is confident there is no other option. This is why Maximum Carnage is a great story since in that one he is conflicted if there is any way to stop Carnage other then offing him.
I also do not care for the drama with Aunt May figuring out that her nephew is Spider-Man to be that engaging since I prefer her always knowing it and therefor bad mouthing Spider-Man so that Peter Parker would stop putting himself in danger and telling him that she had always known right before she died. Yes, you did just her me give praise the dam 90's Clone Saga(shiver). To be honest with all the One More Day crap and the fact that they undid Norman Osborne having planned the whole Clone Saga instead of dying of and the present one being just a clone who never actually sleept with Gwen then I am honestly more bothered with Aunt May still being around then Norman Osborne. Although I will admitt Aunt May in Strancsnky's run worrying that Peter Parker might have been hiding that he had same sex relationships all this time was pretty clever.
Unlike Morlun the Shaker however is a uniquelly unimaginative villain. I mean it was as if Strancznsky was not awere that the Shocker existed since the Shaker is pretty much the Shocker having the same abilities and even a similar name. Also if there is a Polynesian dish that Strancznsky really does not care for he could have mentioned it more specifically instead of just throwing shade at the culinary arts of an entire ethnic group since I doubt he knows all of their food.
The new Doc Ock is fine however and gives us some good rivalry between him and the original although I would have been fine with Carolyn Trainer taking over as the stable Doc Ock(Again there are part of the 90's Clone Saga that I actually like)
Also I like the fact that Strancznsky builts on an idea that author Erik Laursen came up with that Mary Jane is always trying to star in a film based on here presived talents as an actress when the studios just wants her for her body as made clear with that Lobsterman poster.
Spider-Man traveling through time is a very mixed bag tho. One on hand Peter Parker almost stopping himself from becoming Spider-Man is one of the few good stories about how wanting to change something in the past might actually have really bad results and also one of the few times that calling back to the classic era of Spider-Man ends up being good instead of just coming of a pandering. On the other hand Strancznsky should never be alloweed to touch the story the Night Gwen Stacy Died if he ever returns to Marvel because he always screws it up. For one Spider-Man falling again to save Gwen would haunt him allot more if it happened, second Gwen was not conscious when Spider-Man came to rescue her or atleast she did not give away a impression that she was. Sins Past has the same problem by the way but that might just be the mistake of the artist not Strancznsky himself.
Speaking of future abominations by Strancsnsky Spider-Man making a deal with the Hebrew trickster figure was way worse then him doing it to the Nordic equivalent. In fact I quite enjoyed the Spider-Man Loki story. Good to see Loki actually be reffered to as a God and keeping the horned helmet on unlike the film version, although the later might be more John Romita Juniors brilliance.
Don't have much to say about the story about the man who sewed superheroe and supervillain costumes, in the end it was just alright.
One the more positive side I actually quite like Mary Jane being so sexualized when ever she approaches Peter Parker lying in bed since being young married couple it makes sense that they would be all eternally in each others blizz and as such the reader should get that from Parkers perspektive since Spider-Man is supposed to be relatable.
It is also fun to she Spider-Man accidently face a transvestite while climing a building and promising not to tell anybody, also fun is seeing Peter Parker walk down the buildings as opposed to always clime but again that might be more Romitas genius then Strancsnsky's.
The Peter Parker saving a black kid from potentially shooting a police and or getting shot himself seems more relevant now then it did back then given all the riots over the bad blood between blacks in the USA and the authority.
Speaking of real life events the september 11 issue was fine outside of Dr. Doom and especially Dr. Octopus morning the fall of the World Trade Center. I mean Dr. Octopus tried to ones cause an explotion that would have made the fall of the Twin Towers look like a firecracker.
The Spider-Totem idea was not bad although it could have been utilized better. For one Strancznsky totally passed up on the opertunity to have it be retconned that Professor Stillwell was actually medeling in accult magic when he helped create the Scorpion and that there is a Scorpion rival totem that ends up getting into contact with Mac Gargan. After all getting the ability to gain super strenght from having genetic abilties of a bug passed unto you is pretty stupid since Spiders and Scorpions abilites to lift things much bigger then themselves has all to do with the light weight compared to their body mass so I like Strancnsky's retcon in that regard but if he could do it for Spidey he could have done it for Scorpion to. You know besides the fact that I really like Scorpions and Spider-Mans rivalry and would have liked to see it built upon. Also I am not crazy about the Spider-Totem having originally tranfered to the mortal world via Africa if only because since it already existed as a Totem in America it comes of as one of those stupid Afrocentric believes that Amerindians actually ow all their culture to black people(yes, those are bullshit thoeries that some people actually believe).
The right wing nutcase screaming in that one issue after Aunt May finds out that Peter is Spider-Man was kinda funny even tho he supports a thoery I have had about why Strancznsky included that Cats Always Lie play in his Sins Past story. See a part of many right-wing believes especially among those that lean more conservative is that Women are all lying whores whos sexuality needs to be controlled by men, so when the right-wing nutter in that one issue screams about cats always lying it seems clear to me that he means women as it is an old saying that women are like cats men are like dogs. Meaning that men are loyal and women are both treasuresly independent from their family and loved ones and would rather have shallow one night stands then be in commited relationships. So moving away from the Totem storyline Strancznsky obviously wanted to iterate in his story Sins Past that, that is all women are by taking the less sexually lose and immoral love interest of Spider-Man and making her have a one night stand with a man half her age and not telling anybody except Mary Jane about it. As if Sins Past was not misogynistic enough with Peter getting so outraged that one of his enemies might had sex with the love of his life and not him as if it should really matter when the woman in question is both dead and berried.
I know you like Strancznskt for his Spider-Totem storyline but besides the fact that I just consider the storyline to be okay and the fact that Strancsnsky is responsible for Sins Past honestly makes him the worst Spider-Man writter ever in my opinion and I take Mackie, Millar and Dan Slott over him any day.
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And you know I disagree ( I mean we do occasionally) but I am glad you told me your sincere thoughts here. It is still my second favorite run (and yes, I am talking about the Totem section. Funny enough, past Ezekiel I skip to the Spidey/Red Sonja crossover which is infinitely BETTER than whatever happens later on...)
Also, dude, it's Straczynski. I know his name isquite difficult but you can just go with JMS... it's what I use because I often tend to forget where to put the y and the i in his name most of the time.
I would kill to see the Totem storyline adapted (even if I would set it PRIOR to the Clone Saga and AFTER the Michelinie/DeMatteis era).
For Doomsday, I honestly love Hunter/Prey as it explored it better. I love it as the Nemesis Tyrant to Supes' STARS agent.
The wasp creature is Shathra and it's basically a creature/other-dimensional abomination. While I get your point, Peter does not want to take a human life, though vile the human in question is (hi there Cletus !) but when it's a monstrosity ? It's fair game since she lives to literally EAT him. Then again, just my take...
Loki's still wearing his helmet and looking older because this is waaaay before the MCU... and I much prefer old Loki...
And Millar ? Fuck him. Dipshit gave us Jobbernom, Civil fucking War, the Ultimates and made the Authority even more unbearable than they already are. Quite a feat... then again Morrison gave him to the comics industry as a courtesy, when it rains it fucking pours...
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Ugh, I am actually terrible with authors names when it comes to comic books https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?67403-What-are-things-you-dislike-about-the-comic-book-fandom/page59 I am the user named Obeythemoderator by the way.
Also I guess I should add to JMS favor that I liked how Captein America and Spider-Man were both willing to defend Dr. Doom despite him being their enemies(also that one guards at the airport asking Doom how he speaks in capital letters was honestly funnier then any of the 4th wall breaking jokes that Deadpool has ever made). It is always good to know that our heroes support sovereignty of other nations.
Also, just curious what would you say is your favorite run or singel issue of Spider-Man(I know you are both a big fan of JMS and Michelinie)?
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What Eddie didn't know that all those years....that in the desert was a type of Jinn not ever thieves would steal...one who would steal rather than create...the black Jinn, or what they thought the simbiote was back then.
Sounds a bit of a horrifying tale isn't it.
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